I decided to not Twitter the debate so much.
UPDATE: Now with fresh, clean, FactCheck!
We’re watching via www.cnnpolitics.com with laptops and all, but really we’re just watching on our normal TV on the CNN channel.
Biden: “the ultimate bridge to nowhere” regarding the McCain tax credit plan versus the Obama tax cut for those making less than $250,000.
Wow, the little live “love or hate” lines show that the ladies love Biden. The women’s line went to the top of the screen over the tax cuts. And as soon as Palin came on screen talking about how she’s taken on the oil companies in Alaska (hello, lady, they gave you campaign money, in your own area of expertise, beeeyotch).Â The line takes some interesting dips up and down all through this exchange.
At first I thought the men didn’t know how to use the button and were flatlining, but they didn’t like something Palin said about the oil companies, but then they liked something else she said after that.
Next on the economy: the debt-strapped mortgage holders not being able to declare bankruptcy, but Palin runs off answering a different question about the Wall Street corruption/mess/meltdown/toxic mess and how McCain saved Main Street. Good God.
Ifills: back to the mortgage holders question for Biden. He’s actually talking about bankruptcy and how he and Barack didn’t see eye to eye. Notes Obama pointed out the sub-prime mortgage crises two years ago, and how McCain said he was ‘surprised’ by it.
Palin: Says “that’s not so” regarding mortgage, but she wants to talk about her energy expertise and independence and all over this la-a-a-and!” Cue Peter, Paul, and Mary!
Note: No Republican should ever, ever use the word “heckuva” ever again. Ever!
Palin: takes a question on climage change, blah blah doesn’t want to attribute the activity of man because she doesn’t really want to talk about the causes, which she doesn’t admit are global warming… oh, the poor polar bears?
Later: She just said “drill baby drill.” And Nuke-u-lar.Â I really wish I had some booze here.
Biden: trying to explain the no coal plants line as out of context, likes clean coal, hates dirty Chinese coal. Okay, Joe, you’re from a coal mining state.
Ifills: Granting same-sex benefits?
Biden: Yes.Â Under the Constitution. Fair. He’ll get hit on that by the Right, but it’s the fairness issue.
Palin: Not if it goes closer and closerr to redefining the traditional definition of man on woman marriage… well, she didn’t put it that way.Â She says “I am tolerant and have a very diverse family and group of friends,” some of whom don’t agree. Fair enough. Might be open to some legal protections but doesn’t want it to be marriage because boys should not marry boys and girls should not marry girls.
Biden does not support gay marriage. DRAT!! My gay friends want to get married.
Ifills: wonderful, you both agree, let’s move on to foreign policy. Crowd laughs.
Palin relaxes and leans on one side. Foreign policy is her top subject from Debate Camp, apparently.
She lies about Barack turning against funding the troops. That was another procedural vote, beeeyotch. Call her on it, Joe! He voted against a crap bill!
Al Qaeda? They’re the bad guys in Iraq.
Biden: Notes McCain voted against funding the troops also because of the timeline issue in the one bill Notes Obama and he agreed there needed to be a timeline (and I think he voted for one that included a timeline)
Palin: long pause and then tries to remember her line… oh yeah! Your plan is like a white flag of surrender! You guys! You want us to cut and run!
Biden laughs after she says something wickety-wack.
Biden: John McCain voted against funding for troops because the bill had a timeline. Voted against funding the troops, beeeyotch.
Biden: John McCain has been dead wrong on the fundamental issues of the conduct of the war.
Ifills: Pakistan, Iran and nucLEEar weapons.
Biden: Al Queda is not in Iraq… an attack would come from Afghanistan or Pakistan. We should be competing with the madrassas by building schools and helping people. By the way, Bin Laden lives there….
Palin: Insists the Central War on terror is in Iraq. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, but Petraeus says so.Â And Iran shouldn’t have nucular weapons, Israel should be defended by Ahmedinijad – she’s really nailing that name well – and that Korean Kim Jong Il has nukes. They’re downright dangerous.Â She didn’t really talk about Pakistan and did not mention Bin Laden at all.
“I had a good conversation with him (Kissinger) recently…” name dropper! Those foreigners hate America! They hate us for our freedom and diplomacy is hard work….
Good GOD did this woman swipe Bush’s crib notes out of his back pocket?
Biden: notes Ahmedinijad doesn’t control the security apparatus, the theocracy does in Iran. Notes that our allies urge us to sit down and talk, talk, talk, with difficult foreign leaders.Â What makes you think our allies will sit down with us? And Biden gets on a roll and mentions how McCain wouldn’t even sit down with the ambassador of Spain, a NATO ally with troops in Afghanistan… but he forgets to put the shiv in and mention that McCain seemed to think Spain was some country in South America or Mexico or something.
Palin: keeps saying “in a McCain-Palin administration” and keeps hitting the “Isreal is our friend!” button.
Biden: says no one in the Senate has ever been a bigger friend to Isreal than “me, Joe Biden.” Sounds a little Al Frankenish to me.
Oh, and this administration has been an abject failure. On diplomacy with enemies of Israel. So there.
Palin: No, it’ hasn’t been a failure but I’m so glad we both love Israel! And she says the “blame game.” and won’t point fingers and look at the past, blah blah blah. As unpopular as Bush is, she can’t quite bring herself to criticize Bush.Â And she drops at least 2 G’s so she’s all cute and folksy ‘n shit.
Ifills: NucLEEar interventions
Palin: NucULar weapons shouldn’t be used by unstable bad guys.Â She goes back to Afghanistan issues… maybe spotted a point she failed tot make earlier.Â Insists we’re fighting terrorists and insecurity and building schools for children.
Biden: given the go-ahead to address both nukes and Afghanistan. Drops a good quote from the US General saying the surge would not work in Afghanistan.Â Dispatches that issue tidily, goes on to the nucLEEar test ban treaty that McCain has opposed. Notes Barack went to Dick Lugar and wrote a true bipartisan bill. Knows McCain opposed nuclear proliferation controls.
Palin: disagrees that General McLellan McKieran? said the surge principle CAN work in Afghanistan.
Biden: notes McCain was saying 2 years ago that Afghanistan wasn’t in the news because we’d succeeded there and he’s opposed extra funding for troops there.
Ifills: trouble spots in the world like Darfur, and what about US boots on the ground like in Bosnia?
Biden: Bosnia and Kosovo now relatively stable. Before war with Iraq, if we go to war there without our allies, we’ll be there for decades. McCain said it would be “okay.” Regarding Darfur, has no stomach for genocide. We should get helicopters.
Palin: You voted for the war and now you’re against it. American’s are cravin’ that straight talk. Hello? We werre given bad information. The intelligence was fixed remember??? Cherry picking?Â Auugh. this woman.
Palin goes on to Darfur and somehow relatets it to a Sudan divestment issue that came up in Alaska that hasn’t passed the Alaska Legislature yet… huh?
Biden: Something about some countries are badass enough that you can dispense with their silly sovereignty. Then on to attacking McCain’s iraq point of view and conduct of the war.
Palin: Oh, you silly rhetoric spewing politician! The pundits will figure it out tomorrow and McCain knows how to win a war even though he fought in a war that came to a draw.. but he knows how to win a war.
Ifills: Heartbeat away from the Presidency… how will a Biden administration be different from an Obama administration? “I would carry out Barack Obama’s policies” and notes that it would be a terrible tragedy and God forbid that it should happen. Then neatly goes on to note jobs and health care policies and real engagement with our true enemy, Bin Laden. Reject the “Bush Doctrine…” heh heh, now Palin knows what THAT is…
Palin: Heaven forbid that that would ever happen with either party… A team of Mavericks! We don’t agree on everyything!! She’d go her own way but continue his good work… oh boy, deregulations galore.
Oh, boy, health care and reproductive rights have got to be up Gwen Ifills’ sleeve…
Biden: Go to Union Station or Home Depot, and ask if people think this administration’s policies have made them better off. Same with McCain’s policies. The people in my neighborhood get it. Walk with me in my neighborhood. The middle class has gotten the short end. BarackObama gets it.
Palin: jokey there you go Joe! pointin your finger backwards into the past. GOD!!!! Blah blah blah, my brother is a teacher, shout out to the third graders at Whatchagotcha Elementary… this is just embarassing.
There are two Sarah Palins. One looks into the camera and says relatively serious, well formed sentences. The other one goes off script and makes a lame attempt at a joke… gets a laugh from the audience. Lines on the Like-O-Meter, however, remain flat for a while and then rise. Ah, she mentions her special needs child. Using the kid like a nice tidy little sound bit. And she gets all Happy Sarah at the end and says “can’t wait to work with ya” on the issue of special needs education.
Palin; Hits the “No child left behind, we left the funding behind” button quite capably.
Ifills: is the VP not quite executive branch but actually legislative branch…
Palin: Filler. vocal filler, but she agrees that there’s wiggle room in the concept of the additional power of the vice-president as per Cheney. Spackles the holes but doesn’t sand them smooth.
Biden: Vice President Cheney is the most dangerous VP we’ve ever had. Notes the Constitutional underpinnings.Â Notes Cheney has aggrandized his own power, bad precedent.
Ifills: Experience as an executive.
Palin: Experience as governor, mayor, energy independence, heartland of America, Mom, son in war, special needs child, college needs, health insurance, kitchen table… it’s like she’s stuffed full of cozy pictures. Cite’s eagan and “shining city on a hill.”Â Thinks team has a good track record. Rah rah rah!
Biden is rather charmingly modest about lack of discipline not being his only flaw. And he brings up the very sad personal tragedy from his own life and the loss of his first wife. Knows what it’s like to be a single parent.Â Fact: Biden is one of the least wealthy Senators there is… and he just choked up talking about his family. EXTREMELY HIGH Like-O-Meter lines.
Palin: Like-O-Meter lines drop off steeply to the middle. She actually says “He is the man that we need to leaVe” in talking about McCain. BWAH!!!
Biden: McCain is NO MAVERICK. Let’s talk about this for a while. Voted against health care coverage for kids, or on anything that genuinely affects people sitting around their kitchen tables. He voted against heat assistance. Maverick, he is not. You GO JOE!!
Ifills: Can you name a policy where you had to change your views completely?
Biden: Yes, early in his career on Senate Judiciary committee. Realized that it matters what your judicial philosophy is when you are a judge up for a federal post. Notes he led the anti-Bork fight, which I am grateful for.
Palin: Something about not vetoing bills she didn’t really care for, just so progress could be made. Ties in bipartisanship, that McCain can bring people together.
Ifills: Bipartisanship and the events of the last week…
Biden: Cites Mike Mansfield, who dressed him down about a smart comment he made once about Jesse Helms, and he admitted he’d feel like a jerk knowing a humanizing fact about Helms.
Palin: talks about jobs and infrastructure, and energy independence versus the bad ticket that would be blah blah blah (tax and spend). Thought this was supposed tot be about how you work together.
Ifills: Closing statements….
Palin: Main stream media meanies. I like answering the tough questions. We’re gonna fight for the middle class.Â fight for our freedoms… Ronald Reagan… need a drink… that voice… painting a scary picture about the good old day when men and women were free. Nice little script…
Biden: This is the most important election you’ve ever voted in in your entire life,,. There’s a need for fundamental change….Â Barack Obama (always mention the top of the ticket)… measure on whether we can pay mortgage, send kids to college, support our troops with arms and armor, take are of them when they come home. Mom, Dad, Apple Pie: we can reestablish that certitude in America. Cites his dad’s “Champ” quote again. Nice – remembers to say God bless our country, and protect our troops.
No blood on the floor, a good solid back and forth with plenty of stuff to analyze for both sides.
Palin will be declared “a winner’ because she didn’t collapse into a puddle of goo. Don’t know if she did much for the slide in McCain’s numbers but their base will be heartened.
Biden will be declared a winner for not being all mean and condescending but I deduct points for every time he flashes that creepy blinding grin.Â Also, quite capably hit all his marks, didn’t bobble anything too badly (although FactCheck.org via the CNN page is taking exception with something he said about McCain wanting to deregulate health care like he did with banking, a rather cheap shot that I totally missed).